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full-disclosure-uk: [Full-disclosure] PHRACK 64: PROPEDOPHILE

[Full-disclosure] PHRACK 64: PROPEDOPHILE

From: <auto294156_at_nospam>
Date: Fri May 25 2007 - 13:35:59 GMT
To: <full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk>

==Phrack Inc.== |=-----------------------=[ Phrack Pro-Phile of ]=------------------
----=|
|=-------------------=[ The Circle of Lost Hackers ]=---------------
----=|
|=------------------------------------------------------------------
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Welcome to Phrack Pro-Phile. Phrack Pro-Phile is created to bring info to you, the users, about old and highly important controversial peoples. The first Phrack Pro-Phile was created in Phrack Issue 4 by Taran King. Since this date, a total of 43 profile were realized. Some
well know hackers were profiled like Taran King, The Mentor, Knigh Lighting, Lex Luthor, Emmanuel Goldstein, Erik Bloodaxe, Control-C, Mudge, Aleph-One, Route, Voyager, Horizon or more recently Scut.

This prophile is probably a little more different since it will introduce
the new staff. Since the people composing The Circle of Lost Hackers want to stay anonymous, the Prophile will be more a "questionanswer"

prophile.



Personal


Handle: The Circle of Lost Hackers
Call them: call them want to you want, just be careful Handle Origin: Dead Poets Society movie
Date of Birth: from 1977 to 1984
Age at current date: haha
Countries of origin: America, South-America and Europe


Favorite Things


Women : Angelina Jolie because she was a great hacker in a movie Cars : Like everyone, the Dolorean. The only nice car in the world. Foods : Italian food is without a doubt the best food. Some other prefer Chinese or Japanese once they tasted Yakitori's. Alcohols : anything which make you drunk Drugs : sex
Music : Drum and Bass, Sublime, Orbital, Red Hot Chili Peppers, DJ Shadow,

           The Chemical Brothers, The Mars Volta, more generally death metal,

           and gothic rock. Abstract electro bands like Boards of Canada. Movies : Blade Runner, The Usual Suspect, Fight Club, Kill Bill,

           hackers (private joke)
Authors : Gurdjieff, Rufolf Steiner, Rupert Sheldrake, Plato, Stephan Hawkings, Roger Penrose, George Orwell, Noam Chomsky, Sun Tzu, Nicolas Tesla, Douglas Hofstadter, Ernesto Guevara, Daniel Pennac, Gabriele Romagnoli --------------------------------------------------------------------


Open Interview


Q: Hello
A: Saluto amigo!

Q: Can you introduce yourselves in a few words? A: The Circle of Lost Hackers is a group of friends overall. Two years

   ago when TESO decided to stop Phrack, the voice of the underground

   decided not to let Phrack dying. People started to wonder .. Phrack is

   really dead ? In no way it is. Phrack reborns, always, from the influence

   of multiple hacking crews to make this possible. But at the beginning it was not easy to

   create a new team, a lot of people agreed to continue Phrack but not

   really to write or review articles. Also, one of the most important

   thing was to have people with the good spirit. Now we think that    we have a good team and we hope bring to the Underground scene a lot

   of quality papers like in old issues of Phrack, but keeping the technical

   touch that makes Phrack a unique hacking magazine. The Phrack staff evolves

   and will always evoluate a new talents get interested in sharing for fun

   and free information.

Q: How many people are composing The Circle of Lost Hackers? A: We could tell you, but we would have to kill you, after. The only

   important thing is that "The Circle of Lost Hackers" is not a    restricted club. More people will join us, others may leave, depending

   on who really believes in comunication, hacking and freedom of research

   and information.

Q: When did you start to play with computers and to learn hacking? A: Each one of us could answer differently. There's not a "perfect" age to

   start, neither it is ever too late to start. Hacking is researching. It

   is being so obstinated on resolving and understanding things to spend

   nights over a code, a vulnerability, an electronic device, an idea.

   Hacking is something you have inside, maybe you'll never take a    computer or write a code, but if you've an "hacking mind" it will    reveal itself, sooner or later.

   To give you an idea of the first computers of some members of the    team, it was a 286, 486 SX or an Amiga 1000. Each of us started    to play with computer at the end of 80' or beginning of 90'. The    hacking life of our team started more or less around 97. Like with

   a lot of people, Phrack and 2600 mag were and are a great source of

   inspiration, as well as IRC and reading source code.

Q: What's the story of your "hacking career" ? A: [maybe explain that we start with stupid things, after we discovered phrack

    and real hacking techniques, we read a lot, joined a group (or made a group)

    meet new people, start new group, hack a lot, etc. Be original !]

Q: This interview is quite strange, you do the questions and the

   answers at the same time ?!?!
A: What's the problem, in phrack issue 20 Taran King did a prophile

   of himself!!!

Q: Can you tell us what is your most memorable experience? A: Each of us has a lot of memorable experiences but we don't really have

   a common experience where we hacked all together. So to make easy we are

   going to take three of our "memorable" experiences.        

   1.
   A subtle modification about p0f wich made me finding documents    that I wasn't supposed to find. Some years ago, I had a period when

   each month I tried to focus on the security of one country. One of

   those countries was South-Korea where I owned a big ISP. After    spending some time to figure out how I could leave the DMZ and enter

   in the LAN, I succeed thanks to a cisco modification (I like    default passwords). Once in the LAN and after hiding my activity    (userland > kernelland), I installed a slightly modification of    p0f. The purpose if this version was to scan automatically all    the windows box found on the network, mount shared folders and    list all files in these folders. Nothing fantastic. But one of    the computers scanned contained a lot of files about the other    Korea... North Korea. And trust me, there were files that I    wasn't supposed to find. I couldn't believe it. I could do the    evil guy and try to sell these files for money, but I had (and    I still have) a hacker ethic. So I simply added a text file on    the desktop to warn the user of the "flaw". After that I left    the network and I didn't come back. It was more than 5 years    ago so don't ask me the name of the ISP I can't remember.

   2.
   [sauron can you add one?]

   3.
   Learning hacking by practice with some of the best hackers world- wide.

   Sometimes you think you know something but its almost always possible to find

   someone who prove you the opposite. Wether we talk about hacking a very

   big network with many thousands of accounts and know exactly how to handle

   this in minuts in the stealthiest manner, or about auditing source code

   and find vulnerability in a daemon server or Operating System used by

   millions of peoples on the planet, there is always someone to find that

   outsmart you, when you thought being one of the best in what you are doing.

   I do not want to enter in detail to avoid compromising anyone's integrity,

   but the best experience are those made of small groups (3, 4 ..) of hackers,

   working on something in common (hacking, exploits, coding, audits ..), for

   example in a screen session. Learning by seing the others do. Teaching

   younger hackers. Sharing knowledge in a very restricted personal area.

   Partying in private with hackers from all around the world and getting 0day

   found, coded, and used in a single hacking session.

Q: Is one of you has been busted in a previous life? A: Hope no but who knows?

Q: What do you think about the current scene? A: We think a lot of things, probably the best answer is to read the

   article "A brief history of the Underground" in this issue where    we are talking about the scene and the Underground.    

Q: What's your opinion about old phracks? A: Great. Old phracks were the first source of information when we were

   starving for more to learn. _The_ point of reference. But don't stop

   yourselves to the last 10 issues, all issues are still interesting.

Q: And about PHC?
A: Well, thats an interesting question. To be honest, PHC did not just do

   those bad things we were used to learn from the web or irc, we like some

   of them and even know very well a few others. Also, the two attempted

   issues 62 and 63 of PHC had an incontestable renew in the spirit and t

   here were even some useful information on honeypots and protecting exploits.

   However, we have a problem with unjustified arrogance. If it's true the

   security world has a problem with white/black hats, we think that the good

   way to resolve the problem is not to fight everyone, especially such a poor

   demonstrative way. It's not our conception of hacking. Take the first 20 issues

   of Phrack and try to find unjustified arrogant word/sentence/paragraph: you won't

   find any. The essence of hacking is different : it's learning. Hacking to learn.

   You can be a blackhat and working in the IT industry, it's    not incompatible. We have nothing against PHC and we think the    Underground needs a group like PHC. But the Underground needs a magazine

   like Phrack as well. The main battle of PHC is fighting whitehats but

   it's not Phrack's battle. It's never been the purpose of Phrack.    If we have to fight against something, it's against the society and

   not targeting whitehats personally (that doesn't mean that we support

   whitehat...). Phrack is about fighting the society by releasing information

   about technologies that we are not supposed to learn. And these technologies

   are not only Unix-related and/or software vulnerabilities.

   We agree with them when they say that recent issues of Phrack helped

   probably too much the security industry and that there was a lack of

   spirit. We're doing our best to change it. But we still need technical

   articles. If they want to change something in the Underground, they are

   welcome to contribute to Phrack. Like everyone in the Underground

   community.

Q: Full-disclosure or non-disclosure?
A: Semi-disclosure. For us, obviously. Free exchange of techniques, ideas

   and codes, but not ready-to-use exploit, neither ready-to-patch    vulnerabilities.

   Keep your bugs for yourself and for your friend, do the best to not

   make them leak. If you're cool enough, you'll find many and you'll be

   able to patch your boxes.

   Disclosing techniques, ideas and codes implementations helps the other

   Hackers in their work, disclosing bugs or releasing "0-day" exploits

   helps only the Security Industry and the script kiddies.    And we don't want that.

   You might be an Admin, you might be thinking : "oh, but my box is not

   safe if i don't know about vulnerabilities". That's true, but remember

   that if only very skilled hackers have a bug you won't have to face a

   "rm -rf" of the box or a web defacement. That's kiddies game, not    Hackers one.

   But that's our opinion. You might have a totally different one and we

   will respect it. You might even want to release a totally unknown bug

   on Phrack's pages and, if you write a good article, we'll help you in

   publishing it. Maybe discussing the idea, before.

   As we said in the introduction, the first thing we want to garantee

   is freedom of speech. That's the identity of our journal.

Q: What's the best advice that you can give to new generation of hackers?
A: First of all, enjoy hacking. Don't do that for fame or to earn more

   money, neither to impress girl (hint: not always works ;)) or only to

   be published somewhere. Hack for yourself, hack for your interest, hack

   to learn.

   Second, be careful. In every thing you do, in any relationship you'll

   have. Respect people and try to not distrupt their work only because

   you're distracted or angry.

   Third, have fun. Have a lot of fun.

   And never, never, never setup an honeypot (hi Lance!).

Q: What do you think about starting an Underground World Revolution

   Movement against the establishment ?
A: Do it. But do it Underground. The nowadays world is too obsessed by

   "visibility". Act, let the others talk.

Q: What's the future of hacking ?
A: The future is similar to the present and to the past. "Hacking" is the

   resulting mix of curiosity and research for information, fun and    freedom. Things change, security evolves and so does technology, but the

   "hacker-mind" is always the same. There will always be hackers, that is

   skilled people who wants to understand how things really go.

   To be more concrete, we think that the near future will see way more

   interest in hardware and embedded systems hacking : hardware chip    modification to circumvent hardware based restrictions, mobile and

   mobile services exploits/attacks, etc.    

   Moreover, seems like more people is hacking for money (or, at least,

   that's more "publicly" known), selling exploits or backdoors. Money is

   usually the source of many evils. It is indeed a good motivating factor

   (moreover hacking requires time and having that time payed when you

   don't have any other work is really helpful), but money brings with

   itself the business mind. People who pays hackers aren't interested in

   research, they are interested in business. They don't want to pay for

   months of research that lead to a complex and eleet tecnique, they want

   a simple php bug to break into other companies website and change the

   homepage. They want visible impact, not evolved culture.

   We're not for the "hacking-business" idea, you probably realized that.

   We're not for exploit disclosure too, unless the bug is already known

   since time and showing the exploit code would let better understand the

   coding techniques involved. And we don't want that someone with a lot of

   money (read : governement and big companies) will be one day able to

   "pay" (and thus "buy") all the hackers around.

   But we're sure that that will never happen, thanks to the underground,

   thanks to people like you who read phrack, learn, create and hack    independently.

Q: Do you have some people or groups to mention ? A: (mentioning some people and say what do u thing about them, phc, etc)   

   There are groups and people who have made (or are making) the effective

   evolving of the scene. We try to tell a bit of their story in    "International Scenes" phile (starting from that issue with : Australia,

   New-Zealand, Brazil and France). Each country has its story, Italy has s0ftpj

   and antifork, Germany has TESO, THC and Phenolit (thanks for your great

   ph-neutral party), Russia, France, Netherlands, or Belgium have ADM,
   Synnergy, or Devhell, USA and other countries have PHC...

   Each one will have his space on "International Scenes". If you're part

   of it, if you want to tell the "real story", just submit us a text. If

   you are too paranoid to submit a tfile to Phrack, its ok. If you wish

   to participate to the underground information, how journal is your

   journal as well and we can find a solution that keep you anonymous.

Q: Thank you for this interview, I hope readers will enjoy it! A; No problem, you're welcome. Can I have a beer now?

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